Version 1.03, 27 May 2023

Fabric coating for maximum darkness. Even the darkest matte paint is too reflective for this.

Current selections for owner-supplied textiles are:

Proscenium wall: Musou Black Fabric KIWAMI (Backcoated)

Front wall, either side of proscenium (2 drops each side, each drop is 1100mm wide) : Musou Black Fabric KIWAMI (Backcoated)

Ceiling: VL Flock Sheet with Glue

Front wall / procenium…the blacker, the better.

Not all black is equal! I have some fabric samples here that vividly demonstrate this.

Black Velvet / flock is the best by far, for the procenium and wall behind it.

Fabric comparisons (for geeks only)

Materials comparison chart

Comparison image. Will probably want KIWAMI for proscenium and screen wall, but black flock for ceiling to keep costs under control.

Musou Black Fabric Kiwami - as black as you can get.

Great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuwofS6bfF8 - Create the ultimate Batcave Home Theater using Triple Black Velvet [DIY BUILD].

Shows the huge difference between fabric and paint.

Please note, I don’t like the qualify of finish of the end result, the walls make it LOOK like a DIY build.

Someone said, “Here is a Side by Side with Black Fidelio Velvet, Black Commando Cloth (Duvytene) and Black Felt with light hitting it. This was posted in My DIY AT Thread This shows you how black this Fidelio Velvet is next to the previous blackest competitor Black Commando Cloth (Duvytene)”. Photo has since been deleted,, but Black Fideleo was the clear winner.

Example: entire room is wrapped in JR3, you will not see an ounce of sheen in practical use - room is pitch black during movie viewing.

Flock / KIWAMI adhesive: 3M spray adhesive

ArtNovion CS around walls? … All depends on total price including shipping / installation.

3-high probably the sweet spot…

How it might look:

2-high Not quite the same:

4-high pretty cooll , but starting to get unaffordable...

Try to re-use existing ArtNovion where possible.

Fabric re-coating of white?

At least, painting the white diffusers with Musou Black paint.

Goal is to minimise reflected light so picture is as bright as possible, which means dull matte surfaces rather than glossy.

Some people love super-black fabric walls, but apparently a room can be too dark, which can make the room seem uncomfortable / uninviting (and ugly), and obviously not what we want.

As an alternative to matte paint, which reflects a lot of light while still managing to look dull and boring, we will likely use Guilford of Maine or FR-DMD fabric for wall coverings.

This is acoustically transparent so will not affect the high frequencies as ordinary fabric could.

Samples have been ordered.

Stretching fabric using FabricMate gives much better result. Please see “Affixing fabric to walls” Section below for more detail.

Better result than 3M spray adhesive, although this can be used for non-adhesive Flock / KIWAMI.

LED strips between sections … we want BLACK PMMA light strip over LED strips. Note this will lessen brightness, so we want bright LEDs to compensate for this.

Here’s an example of light strips at fabric joins. The lights around the coffee look great too…

Any fabric must be flame redardant

Fabric width varies slightly by brand, but is mostly around 1.6m in width.

Affixing fabric to walls

May to a horizontal stripe, above and below the ArtNovion CS (again, assuming this is affordable)

Fabric Mate Fabric Track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM12Pvfixig - great overview video, well worth watching how to attach fabric to walls.

Looks pretty simple… screw fabric mounting frame to walls, attached a piece of MDF between frame, cloth is clipped easily between the frame.

Will order all required tools and sample frame for experiementation.

FS230 double bevel - accepts fabric from both sides…

Images:

Will order samples and pro installation kit. This would also look great in the studio.

DEREK NOTE: So, we no longer want black painted walls all the way around. We had a friend to this and he said it made the entire room feel uncomfortable. Will confirm if colour is need depending on whether we go down the fabric route.

If we do end up with painted walls, considering deep purple / burgundy / navy blue? https://www.mandlpaints.com/paints/colour-collections/blues/inky-blue/ has been recommended, but that’s from the UK. Dark and not strongly coloured, will need to reselect and advise if we don’t opt for textile covering. Exploring feasibility of ArtNovion wall covering first and foremost.

Do not want chrome lights in the ceiling, the image will reflect off these in such a dark room.

Should be able to user black downlights, e.g. https://lightingdirect.co.nz/ledlux-arlo-cct-cri90-bk

Failing that, could always Black paint over on any visible chrome on downlights.

Owner-supplied paint for this, Musou Black Paint, a water-based acrylic paint that can absorb up to 99.4% of visible-light

Ceiling acoustic panels need to be precisely placed (plan forthcoming), so will need to work the ceiling covering around the location of these.

Other than starry and acoustic panels, we want the ceiling to be as black as possible. Most likely, a fabric such as “VL Flock Sheet” as per wall coverings above.

Question for paper-hanger: What is preferred, peel-and-stick backed covering, or non-adhesive backing affixed with 3M spray adhesive? This may influence product ordered.

Downlights

Lutron controlled (Terry @ Soundline)

4 Zones: side lights, rear lights, front row seating, rear row seating.

No downlights behind proscenium/screen.

BLACK downlights, not silver … e.g. https://lightingdirect.co.nz/ledlux-arlo-cct-cri90-bk

LED Floor lights

Lighting under steps to provide discreet illumination of all steps, without lighting up the room

Hopefully able to light up stairs via Lutron. Terry?

Need to make sure the brightness can be dialled down enough so they are just bright enough so people can make their way in/out of the room, and not so bright that they light up the room and detract from the overall darkness of the room.

I have a friend to replaced the bright modern LED strips with old-fashioned LED’s

See link above to inspirational theatre design… good layout but far too bright

Starry lights in ceiling

THREE options -

(1) Manually drilling holes - not as bad as it might seem - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irJWexhgD0Q - well worth watching.

Great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irJWexhgD0Q

https://www.starscape.co.uk/ / https://www.starceiling.com

Great questions here: https://www.starceiling.com/form/

(2) ArtNovion starry panels … unlikely to be able to afford, as well as ArtNovion side walls. Time will tell, prices are weeks away.

Artnovion Panels Images:

(3) cheaper LED flock panels (I got a sample and it’s quite absorbent, so not really suitable.).

Cheap LED flock panels… hmm. Quite absorbent, and having a 5cm frame is not ideal.

Chinese supplier: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Star-ceiling-panels-Fiber-optic-star_1600295823973.html?spm=a2756.order-detail-ta-ta-b.0.0.dd482fc2tMcDzZ

Please note the framing required for these. This can be metal or wooden. Metal might make a ringing noise?

If we go in this direction, panels are 60cm x 60cm, or 60cm x 120cm. I have a 30cm x 30cm sample en route.

Somewhat conveniently, the ArtNovion acoustic panels are virtually the same size (595mm x 595mm), so should fit into the above framing amongst the stars quite nicely.

IMPORTANT NOTE: There will be 6 in-ceiling speakers.

These will be 2 rows of speakers towards the sides, allowing a starry feature in the middle between them

Terry to determine the ideal location for these, so we don’t end up trying to put two things in the same place.

COFFER might be a good way to surround this feature, as we consider a false ceiling.

DEREK - If we did framing for the starry ceiling panels as per above, would this be in addition to the independent ceiling and bulk head for Hvac ventilation and lighting, as suggested?

NZ alternative, ceiling mounted: https://www.specializedlightingconcepts.co.nz/products/star-ceiling-panel/

UK installers - useful video: https://www.starceiling.com/, with coffer

Home Theater Cinema RGB Fiber Optic Star Ceiling [Custom Build] : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHkg-GyijTU

Location - Determined by ArtNovion requirements, as the positioning of the ceiling acoustic panels is fairly set, so the stars will have to be placed around these.

Note the above starry ceiling in the above video still looks great, even though it too is divided into sections.

Animated Vertical Strips

(Maybe) Compensate otherwise minimal aesthetics with LED lighting, very cool power-on sequence, like the one in the “Inspiration” section above ( https://www.dropbox.com/s/zplqksmboteplld/Grand%20Designs%20Chalford%20Manor%20theatre.mov?dl=0 ). May not be optional if stick rows of textile side-by-side looks bad (e.g. visible seams).

Black PMMA light diffuser would contribute to the overall “dark”, hopefully not reflecting light:

Want longer than 2m… floor to ceiling.

But this might not work in well with ArtNovion panels… so perhaps we focus on ceiling for feature lighting and just have side downlight like in the ArtNovion design:

Kevin Stewart, Designer Lighting?

https://www.mblights.com.au/product/mbl1707-profile/ - have 3m or custom cut lengths, would prefer to buy in NZ.

Power

Dedicated 20A power line to storage room, where components will be located (near the wall ports).

Power to projector to run from the 20A line in the storage room to projector location

Terry @ SoundLine to determine exact projector location

Question for Terry: Do the rear subwoofers need to be powered from this same line as well?

Dual power outlets on the front wall, at each edge of the screen (i.e. towards each side but just out of sight from the seating area), to power speaker magnets (front subs and main L&R speakers), fed from next to 20A line in storage room

Dual power outlets on each end of the rear wall, to power rear subwoofers, fed from next to 20A line in storage room

AC cabling

Speaker Cables (owner supplied)

At the expense of keeping speaker cables the same length:

Center speaker - Transparent Reference - 21ft (6.4m)

L&R speakers - Transparent Reference - 30ft (9m). Will hopefully just reach the right speaker. Black cables, will probably have to just sit on floor rather than be in wall.

Existing owner-supplied cables will not work for in-wall ducting. Perhaps have in-wall as a plan B… if the cables don’t reach from the amplifier to the right speaker, might as well put new ones in the walls. Ask Terry.

In wall speaker cabling to side and surround speakers

In-wall speaker cabling from component racks to L&R front subwoofers

In-wall balanced line-level (XLR) cabling from component racks to rear subwoofers

Power provision for wireless and USB charging throughout seating area

We want power to be provided to Riser area, for lighting, discreet mains power outlets, surface-mounted USB ports , and wireless phone chargers between seats. No need yet, this is more of a longer term goal, just wanting to ensure we have the required power outlets. Will need to determine best exact locations for these.

Wiring for remote control seeing eye above screen

Smoke alarm

LAN cabling (Soundline)

Optical fibre run to storage/equipment room.

Raised stage area at the front

Nicer aesthetics

Speakers better aligned vertically with primary listening position (i.e. the same floor height as the back row)

Sample construction images

Height to match raised platform area - currently 360mm

In practice, would fill with bags of dried sand (or better yet, concrete), so unit is inert and would not vibrate/resonate, like this ….

Need to ensure vibrations are minimized.

May need to stuff entire raised area with insulation (at least), to prevent it becoming a resonant chamber...

Please refer to wiring requirements in “Electrical / Cabling” section.

Anamorphic lens, lens slide installation (Terry)

Terry to measure, also to determine ideal projector location which may be influenced by anamorphic lens

Proscenium / Baffle Wall Design

Terry to verify screen measurements from plans.

Minimise width, so screen takes up entire width of proscenium (leaving maximum room at the sides for speakers etc)

Center speaker directly behind screen, at height and distance recommended by Terry. Vertical vs horizontal orientation? Vertical normally better, will have to reorient tweeter. Needs to be securely seated on a shelf between proscenium and rear wall, not seen on draft plans (please see p156 of Home Theater Guide, will want to be very study due to weight of speaker, I expect floor supported)

Please note that unlike the prosceniums in the Home Theatre Guide, our one does not extend to the side walls. We are allowing space for the huge speakers to sit either side of the proscenium/screen.

Speakers (for Terry)

Focal Sub Utopia EM Subwoofers in front corners

Rears: Focal Maestro Utopia

Fronts: Focal Grande Utopia EM

JL Audio Fathom f112v2 subwoofers in rear corners

side speakers: Focal SR1000-BE

Screen

Stewart Filmscreen StudioTek 100, acoustically transparent.

Either thick or thin border will be OK, since the proscenium and the rear wall should be pitch black.

Side wall ports for stereo gear

@Derek - please can you check the internal dimension on the plans with the ones below, I see the plans allow for MDF framing, it’d be good to double check that the measurements are correct internal dimensions, including any MDF framing.

Allowing front of stereo components to be flush with the side wall, the rear of the components in the adjoining storage room

Forward port - for Mephisto (floor) amplifier. internal dimensions 590mm W x 500mm

Port only high and wide enough as required (i.e. not going all the way to the ceiling!), just a few cm either side and above

Amp dimensions : 53cm W x 34cm H (not on stand)

Height on Stand: 465mm

Internal Port dimensions: 590mm W x 500mm H

Side port - for main component racks, . internal dimensions 1250H x 2000W

Actual height: 1210 mm

Actual width: 1910 mm

Side Port internal dimensions (including side / top spacing) : 1250H x 2000W

Floor coverings (carpet) to flow through port and into adjoining room for both ports

IMPORTANT NOTE: Somehow a door crept into the plans that was not discussed, splitting storage area into two (see red “X” below).

This door should not be present here. Architects have been advised, whom I expect will provide updated plans.

NOTE: Glowing electronics might be annoying in a dark theatre. Thinking about how to obscure these. Curtains housed within a pelmet, perhaps? (covered with the same textile/paint as walls).

HVAC system

Dean McDonnell at Electra-call has always installed our heat pumps and really looks after us on price of the hardware

Mechanical Ventilation, so glass door and windows not required

might want additional mechanical ventilation in the adjoining storage room, since this is mostly sealed, and will contain lots of heat-generating electronics

Awaiting confirmation from architects (Bing @ Hierarchy) and this will pass council requirements

No need to get architect involved in this?

Discs only 6 inches deep … don’t need an entire storage room for that.

Rear cupboards with ArtNovion treatment on rear theater wall?

In discreet cupboards

DVD dimensions are 135cm deep, so let’s make 150mm deep storage - as thin as possible

DVD height 190, BluRay height 171 … internal shelf height 200mm

Soundproofing / acoustic isolation (DEREK)

building the floor on a rubber mat or seal the floor with a sound dampening paint to avoid noise traveling through the concrete floor?

an independent ceiling and bulk head for Hvac ventilation and lighting which also prevents sound transmission from outside noise?

Framing a “room within a room” so no point of contact to perimeter block work at all

Revising plan to transmit less sound. Do we need to bounce back to architects for this for a plan update ($$$), or can you handle internally Derek?

Approximate costs for this?

Thank you for reading!

Derek Scott Builder

MWF Manufacturing (Gary)

Is Gary supplying/installing the bar leaner, or just doing the bar area?

Terry @ Soundline Audio

Determining ideal speaker locations

AV wiring

projector location, installation, calibration

acoustic treatments

Lutron lighting expansion

Theatre tuning

CarpetCourt

Rhino Park Avenue carpet

Hierarchy Group - architects

Dean McDonnell, Electra-Call. Heat pump supply and install.

Incorrect downlight positions shown, lights should aligned to be directly above seat (plus row in the rear, illuminating the back leaner at the back).

Linear Lights around edges of room… are these the wall strips? Will want to position these according to the fabric panelling, there’s far many shown in the plans.

Fabric width tends to be around 162-167 cm, suggest positioning and potential lighting according to this.

Will know more exact measurements once fabric mounting kit arrives.

Plans do not show block infill in place of existing garage door

It would be good cable channel running UNDER the stage area, so there’s no cables running across the stage…

It might to be hard to tell until we lay out the cables when things are partially constructed and we can establish ideal locations for cable exit points.

e.g. sqrt( 6^2 + 1.5^2 ) = 6.2 metres. Meaning it’s highly likely the 9m cable would reach. Would need large pipe to draw cables through, note the large plugs on the cable.

Better still … Is drilling a large (8cm?) hole through the blocks for cables permitted? They need not be visible at all, in that case!

@DEREK: It might be worthwhile increasing the depth of the stage ever so slightly, making the front of the stage flush with the side of the front port, to make routing of cables just that little bit easier (e.g. through a hole driilled in the area marked in green below). If that’s too close to the edge of the blockwork, I am sure we could move the port a little, in the direction indicated by the orange arrow here:

Acoustic panels - can be made in the same fabric as the wall fabric to be more discreet.